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Alpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog

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On Today's Dividing Line

05/15/2012 - James White

Today we had a jumbo sized DL (90 minutes) once again focusing upon the exploding discussion of homosexuality in Western culture. Started with a lengthy reading of, and response to, this article by Rachel Held Evans. Then responded briefly to a comment by Hugh Hewitt, then noted a statement in Barack Obama's book, The Audacity of Hope, wherein he identifies Paul's statement on homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27 as an "obscure line" that needs to be interpreted in light of the Sermon on the Mount, and finally examined Chris Matthew's outrageous behavior in an ostensible "interview" of Tony Perkins. Here's the program.

And don't forget the WayBack Machine, streaming Dividing Lines from 1998 onward 24/7! You can listen on the Flash Player found here.

13:38:11 - Category: The Dividing Line - Link to this article -


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Bavinck on Creation

05/14/2012 - Jamin Hubner

Revisited a good quote for those saturated in the age-of-the-earth debate and creation/evolution. You may not agree with him, but I think Bavinck presents (as he does with so much in his theological work) a rather balanced and valuable perspective.
The whole work of creation — according to the repeated testimony of the Scriptures — was completed in six days. There has, however, been a good deal of difference of opinion and freedom of speculation about those six days. No one less than Augustine judged that God had made everything perfect and complete at once, and that the six days were not successive periods of time, but only so many points of vantage from which the rank and order of the creatures might be viewed. On the other hand, there are many who hold that the days of creation are to be regarded as much longer periods of time than twenty-four hour units. Scripture speaks very definitely of days which are reckoned by the measurement of night and morning and which lie at the basis of the distribution of the days of the week in Israel and its festive calendar. Nevertheless Scripture itself contains data which oblige us to think of these days of Genesis as different from our ordinary units as determined by the revolutions of the earth.

In the first place we cannot be sure whether what is told us in Genesis 1:1-2 precedes the first day or is included within that day. In favor of the first supposition is the fact that according to verse 5 the first day begins with the creation of light and that after the evening and the night it ends on the following morning. But even though one reckons the events of Genesis 1:1-2 with the first day, what one gets from that assumption is a very unusual day which for a while consisted in darkness. And the duration of that darkness which preceded the creation of light is nowhere indicated.

In the second place, the first three days (Gen. 1:3-13) must have been very unlike ours. For our twenty-four hour days are effected by the revolutions of the earth on its axis, and by the correspondingly different relationship to the sun which accompanies the revolutions. But those first three days could not have been constituted in that way. It is true that the distinction between them was marked by the appearance and disappearance of light. But the book of genesis itself tells us that the sun and moon and stars were not formed until the fourth day.

In the third place, it is certainly possible that the second series of three days were constituted in the usual way. But if we take into account that the fall of the angels and of men and that also the Flood which followed later caused all sorts of changes in the cosmos, and if, in addition, we notice that in every sphere the period of becoming differs remarkably from that of normal growth, then it seems not unlikely that the second series of three days also differed from our days in many respects.

Finally, it deserves consideration that everything which according to Genesis 1 and 2 took place on the sixth day can hardly be crowded into the pale of such a day as we now know the length of days to be. For on that day according to Scripture there occurred the creation of the animals (Gen. 1:24-25), the creation of Adam (Gen.1:26 and 2:7), the planting of the garden (Gen. 2:8-14), the giving of the probationary command (Gen. 2:16-17), the leading of the animals to Adam and his naming them (Gen. 2:18-20), and the sleep of Adam and the creation of Eve (Gen. 2:21-23).

However all this may have been, the six days remain the creation week within which the heaven and the earth and all their hosts were made. These days indicate the temporal order in which the creatures successively came into being, but at the same time they contain a suggestion of the relationship of rank in which these creatures stand over against each other. No scientific investigation can overthrow this relationship. The formless precedes the formed in rank and order, the inorganic precedes the organic, the plan precedes the animal, and the animal precedes man. Man is and remains the crown of creation.: the making and the preparation of the earth issues in him, and converges upon him. (Our Reasonable Faith, 172-3)

Bavinck's devastating critique of Darwinism can be found in Part III, IV, and V of the second volume of Reformed Dogmatics.

19:08:18 - Category: Misc - Link to this article -


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Open Phones and Gay Marriage on Today's Dividing Line

05/09/2012 - James White

There was much to talk about with the North Carolina vote, President Obama becoming the first American President to openly endorse the destruction of a God-given institution, etc. Here's the program.

21:44:54 - Category: The Dividing Line - Link to this article -


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Yesterday on the Dividing Line: Mega DL Continuing Response to Matthew Vines

05/09/2012 - James White

I was only going to discuss Matthew Vine's "Gay Christian" presentation for the first hour, but since we were in the middle of the biblical discussion, I went ahead and continued, so we did a full two hours on the subject, covering Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, and starting into Romans 1. I am hearing from a lot of folks that these programs are helping them in the discussions that are inevitably arising due to the discussion of homosexuality, the redefinition of marriage, etc., in Western culture. Here's the program.

Speaking of which, I am sure everyone is noticing that "he who frames the debate wins the debate" being fulfilled this very morning in the media in the US. The passing of Amendment 1 in North Carolina (don't worry, the Federal government will over-turn all these silly, backwards states over time), which affirms and defines marriage in the only logical, rational, historical, moral, ethical, biological, and, of course, Christian way, as the union of one man and one woman, is almost universally being identified as a "banning of gay marriage." Instead of the positive affirmation of serious and thoughtful morality and ethics that is rooted deeply in our history and culture, the main stream media in general has identified the amendment as anti-gay bigotry, etc., never, ever considering the deep bigotry and bias that is inherent in the homosexual movement. The issue is almost always framed in such a way as to paint the moral stance as negative and bigoted, and to put those who would resist the redefinition of marriage on the defensive. It is so obvious and yet the majority of our fellow citizens seem to ignore the reality.

06:58:28 - Category: The Dividing Line - Link to this article -


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Tomorrow on the Dividing Line!

05/07/2012 - Tur8infan

Tomorrow, Lord willing, there will be a "Mega" Dividing Line program beginning at 1 p.m. Arizona time (1 p.m. PDT/ 4 p.m. EDT). Matthew Vines, or rather his speech, will be discussed during the first hour of the program.

You can stream it live at this link, which is the same link that will let you stream the "way back" feed of old Dividing Line programs when the Dividing Line is not live.

Mr. Vines is welcomed and encouraged to call in at 1-877-753-3341 (Toll Free).

-TurretinFan

18:25:40 - Category: The Dividing Line - Link to this article -


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Yesterday on the Dividing Line..

05/04/2012 - Rich Pierce

James reply's to Matthew Vines' "The Gay Debate: The Bible and Homosexuality" YouTube presentation and more.

Here's the program

09:47:19 - Category: The Dividing Line - Link to this article -


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Mega DL Today at 3PM MST/6PM EDT

05/03/2012 - James White

Why a Mega? Simple. I listened to this entire presentation this morning out in the gorgeous Arizona early morning, and I think it is a MUST RESPOND presentation. This is a very different approach than you see in Dan Savage, and is far more difficult to respond to for most Christians. Want to do your homework beforehand so as to be ready? Here's the presentation I will be responding to:



09:58:56 - Category: Christian Worldview - Link to this article -


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Steve Rays' Reasons

05/02/2012 - Tur8infan

Steve Ray, now a Roman Catholic, formerly a Protestant congregant attempted to answer some questions about why he decided to trust the Papal see:

I explained my reasons for converting to the Catholic Church in my book Crossing the Tiber and on my Conversion CD. Here I provide a few of the quotations that had an impact on my decision. It is far from a complete list.

In fairness to Steve, this particular post is not going to deal with the particular sample quotations - and even the quotations may not have been the complete reason. The point of this point is to address some of the generalities.

As an Evangelical Protestant, echoing the words of Baptist Preacher Charles H. Spurgeon, I cared about what the Holy Spirit revealed to me, but had little regard for what he had revealed to others, especially those in the first centuries--some who knew the apostles personally.


With all due respect, now that Steve is Roman Catholic he STILL cannot have much regard for what the Holy Spirit revealed to other men: Steve is bound by dogma to accept the declarations of his church without regard to whether they were taught by the fathers. Steve has turned over his judgment to the truth, he has not gained liberty to evaluate the fathers freely.

Most curious is his "some who knew the apostles personally." There are no extant writings of Christians that are positively attributable to people who knew the apostles personally. There are the "Epistle of Barnabus" (attributed sometimes to Paul's companion) and "The Shepherd of Hermas," (attributed to a very early Christian or heretical writer) but the only accounts outside of Scripture that are remotely reliable as to the words of first century Christians who knew the apostles would come from the second hand words of 2nd century Christians.


I was convinced that the earliest Christians were basically “Protestant“ in their theology and practice and only became corrupted with “Catholic stuff“ in later centuries. I thought Protestants had the claim to authentic continuity back to the apostles.

Well, that depends what you consider "Catholic stuff." Some "Catholic stuff" entered very early, while other "Catholic stuff" like indulgences, prayers to departed believers, use of icons and idols for worship, papal infallibility, and the bodily assumption of Mary arose later - in some cases much later (try finding documentation of papal infallability more than a century before Vatican I).


But I was very mistaken and the more I studied the early Fathers of the Church, starting with Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, (disciples of Peter and Paul), Papias, Irenaeus, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and others, I became convinced the early Church was Catholic. Intellectual honestly and spiritual integrity forced me to become a Catholic. As the old maxim says: “The water is always cooler and cleaner as you draw closer to the source.” I had gone back to the early Church and the truth was clear and refreshing.

First, the maxim is untrustworthy: heresies sprang up immediately. The apostles, for example, had to deal with Judaizing within the first century, and possibly Gnosticism as well (John's gospel can be viewed as a direct response to the Gnostic heresies).

Second, the claim that Ignatius of Antioch and Clement of Rome were personally familiar with the apostles is open to reasonable doubt: the historical evidence of such personal familiarity is far from persuasive. There is, however, evidence of knowledge of the writings of the apostles - evidence of knowledge of the New Testament. 

For example, when Ignatius writes to the Ephesians, he quotes from Paul's epistle to the Ephesians (see Ignatius' Letter to the Ephesians, Chapter 1, quoting from Ephesians 5:2) and Paul's epistle to the Corinthians (Id. Ch. 2, quoting from 1 Corinthians 1:10; and Ch. 18, quoting from 1 Corinthians 1:20).  Likewise, Clement writing to the Corinthians heavily relies on Old Testament Scripture, and likewise appears to reference New Testament Scripture (See 1 Clement 23, apparently combining James 1:8 and 2 Peter 3:3-4).

What is even more key is the fact that even though Ignatius of Antioch may have been ordained by one of the apostles or by men who know the apostles, in his letter the authority to which he appeals is uniformly the authority of Scripture.  He at one point quotes a saying of Jesus, but even this saying is found in the Gospels (See 1 Clement 13, providing the words found at Matthew 6:12–15 and 7:2 and Luke 6:36–38). 

More certainly could be said about the page at the link above.  There a number of quotations provided that doubtless are troubling to certain people, some of which I've addressed before, and most of which are addressed by (a) acknowledging that we are not carbon copies of the early church fathers, (b) recognizing that the church fathers were not all carbon copies of one another, (c) reading the fathers in context (perhaps I should have placed this first), and once we have adduced the true meaning of the fathers, if it disagrees with us, placing that matter before the bar of Scripture, which is the only infallible rule of faith and life.

Don't even get me started on the quotations from Luther.  I suspect my friend James Swan has already addressed those, as he has so many other attempted reliances on Luther by Rome's apologists.

UPDATE: Yes, he has dealt with them. Check out his responses here:

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2008/06/luthers-imaginary-letter-to-pope-leo-x.html

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2012/01/luther-there-are-almost-as-many-sects.html

-TurretinFan

12:14:43 - Category: Roman Catholicism - Link to this article -


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Video Response to Dan Savage, Along with a Challenge

05/02/2012 - James White

Think Dan Savage would do a real debate, I mean, one where both sides are equally represented, where he would have to engage in cross-examination, provide serious scholarship, etc.? Think this video will remain on YouTube? Let's pray toward that end!



11:47:13 - Category: Christian Worldview - Link to this article -


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Yesterday on the Dividing Line: A Program I Could Never Upload to YouTube

05/02/2012 - James White

Sad, isn't it? I would love to post the video from yesterday's point-by-point response to Dan Savage, but we all know in this upside down, morally inverted world, that homosexuals can say anything they want--they can use profanity in High School auditoriums in front of hundreds of students, they can mock students who walk out in offense, and well, the MSM and the culture may shake their head, but they will not suffer for their actions. But if a Christian responds and demonstrates that Dan Savage is significantly less than honest in his argumentation, we all know what will happen to that video. But, we do not post the Dividing Line on YouTube, we have our own server, so at least we can still do that. For now.

So I spent the first 45 minutes in response to Dan Savage and also discussing the Ron Brown situation, once again noting the inherent inconsistencies involved in pro-homosexual apologetics. Then we started taking calls. LOTS of calls. At one point every single line in our phone system was filled, and I didn't even think that was possible. But, it was. A couple had to do with the MItt Romney, "Can a Christian vote for a Mormon?" issue, along with lots of other topics. Here's the program.

And don't forget the WayBack Machine, streaming Dividing Lines from 1998 onward 24/7! You can listen on the Flash Player found here.

06:52:23 - Category: The Dividing Line - Link to this article -


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