Alpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog
Tim Guthrie of Winning Truth Ministries Writes to Me
05/24/2006 - James WhiteThe following came through our website:
I just completed reading your email exchange with the Caners. I am floored by your lack of understanding of the proposed Thesis. Could it be that you are so caught up in your own intellectualism that you miss the simplicity of the Thesis. I had my 13 yr old look at it and he got it right without any coaching or assistance. You guys can only hope that your ingnorance does not get out to the general community. I know why the Caners did not answer your question about their view of your salvation - it was a trap thrown down, waiting to attack them - which you did even with a NO ANSWER. You guys are unbelievable. What is really sad, is that I was enjoying your material until I read your email exchange and saw the purposeful attempts by you and Tom to change the subject, trap the Caners, and claim your superior intellectual gifts and appraoches. You guys are George Pattons - only you are on the losing side of this one on all fronts! P.S. Why would God create anyone destined for or pre-chosen for hell. Would that not be a violation of the biblical principle of making the most of your time and doing all to the Glory of God? Get a grip guys - this stuff is crazy!!!!!!!!!
Greetings, Tim. Thanks for taking the time to read the correspondence. Most folks came away from it with a very, very different take than you did. I find that somewhat interesting.
Since your thirteen year old can understand the proposed thesis statement, could you please have him/her, or yourself, if he/she is too busy now that school is out, answer all the questions I have asked about it so that I can join him/her in understanding it? I would especially be interested in the grammatical and syntactical issues I raised, and even more so, just how he/she is able to determine that a unitarian universalist would not be able to defend this thesis while the Caners can. I look forward to his/her explanation.
I'm afraid our "ingnorance" is already out there for all to see, Tim! I mean, I posted the correspondence myself. But as I noted above, you are in a small minority who has read the material the way you did.
I must congratulate you on seeing through our Calvinist trap! Tom and I worked into the wee small hours of the morning on that one, carefully crafting it. You can't imagine how hard it is to come up with these things. I mean, think about it: I have to somehow craftily guide the Caners into never calling me "brother," never referring to me in any fashion at all that would lead one to believe I am a Christian. Then, I have to repeatedly refer to them as fellow Christians. Then I have to get them to not only treat me like an unbeliever, but then I have to somehow dazzle them so that when I ask a simple question of them, they go silent for three weeks (that was the tough part of the plot). Yes indeed, but you have seen through all that hard work! I guess anyone who can figure out that thesis is way ahead in seeing through all of our best planned traps!
Yes, I live my life looking for opportunities to attack the Caners, Tim. I don't know what I did with my life those first few decades, but then, one day, it hit me! True fulfillment will be found in attacking the Caner brothers! And I've been at it ever since. Well, till now. You've seen through me, and I'm sure you will let them know, so...!
Now, what is more, you've managed to discover our "change the subject" ruse, which has been so completely effective until now. I mean, most folks, when they read the correspondence, find the Caners raising all sorts of issues, but when refuted or shown their logical errors, ignoring the replies or changing the subject. But not you! No, you have seen through those repeated efforts to get the Caners to respond to meaningful questions! There is no fooling you. That kind of thing is a trap! Yes indeed.
Now, your last question---is that a trap? I mean, it looks like an innocent question, but, as we have now learned, questions can often be traps! What makes it look like a trap to me is...well, the fact that it shows you have never listened to anything I've ever said on this subject, read any of my relevant books, etc. How many times have I said election is always unto life, not unto death? How many times have I pointed out that God has to exercise grace to elect someone unto salvation, but He does not have to expend any energy at all to justly condemn those in Adam? How many times have I pointed out that the only really consistent position from which a question like yours could be asked would be one of Open Theism (are you, perhaps, an Open Theist?)? So, is this a trap, perhaps? Or are you seriously suggesting that the precept "make the most of your time" is somehow relevant to God's eternal decree regarding His self-glorification and the eternal covenant of redemption?